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  1. DS is probably one of my favorite games of all time. Not because it’s a perfect game, but because it tried to do something different, even if that different could have had more polish, it was unique and a fun experience that I haven’t felt in the giant pile of samey games that keeps getting released every year.

    Even if you didn’t like the game, you should at least encourage the type of developer that goes out of their way to make something different.

  2. if there’s one thing that motivated me since the first trailer is how unique it was, I don’t wanna be that guy but there’s a whole bunch of people who aren’t really open minded with art and that includes video games, people should not judge things without playing them or experimenting them… While I might not agree with the finale of TLOU2 I think it was bold to do that one, but that’s also the reason why RDR2 is my favorite game and Death Stranding being my second favorite game.

  3. Couldn’t agree more, I never saw a game that we play as the “villain”, ND was bold as fuck for trying and I respect that 100%, I loved the game, I loved the experience… This game it’s not for everyone, for me was the best experience I ever had with a videogame for sure

  4. Can’t agree more with this comment, death stranding chose to try a different gameplay loop which is less like another stealth shooter and more like a simulation of climbing Mount Everest if it was in the upside down from stranger things. On the last of us 2 part, don’t even get me started. I get that not everyone will like it but if u for a second think it’s “bad writing” or “betraying the fans” I legitimately consider you immature, childish, and unable to understand artistic choice. Now some people get pissed immediately in that game with just the first death which is not even worth an argument on why it made sense, and the second big change that happens half way through which seemed weird even to me at first really pays off if u just stop trying to hate it and take it for what it is. I’ve seen so many people pissed at the game because they refuse to analyze what’s happening and instead get the wrong message from it.

  5. Got a PS4 just for Death Stranding, and just beat TLOU2 (after also playing the 1st one). They were all such great games. They were all packed with complicated emotions that really made you think about everything that was going on. I hope more games are like this in the future.

  6. DS is literally my top 3 of all time, not because its perfect, but because there’s literally nothing like it. It’s the most unique game I’ve ever played. Plus the story was just great, and well told. It was actually coherent once you understood all the lingo. I wish all of the QOL changes were done before I put in my 160hrs, because I would have enjoyed it even more.

    I really, really hope this isnt the last Death Stranding game. I absolutely loved all the characters and the story, and hope Kojima can continue it somehow!

  7. Damn, I’m surprised to see many people who didn’t like TLOU II in this thread. I fucking loved it. I even platinumed it. >!The way Joel died was **not** disrespectful. It was **real**. Any other way would have cheapened the whole moment, and the rest of the story. As for people not being satisfied with Ellie not killing Abby, I think it shows they may have missed the entire point it was making there.!< People say the story is “lazy and bad writing”, but it couldn’t be further from the truth imo. You have to keep an open mind and commit to the journey, like DS. Granted DS isn’t as dark as TLOU II, but still.

  8. I guess care fuck all what reviewers and other gamers think. Preordered DS and played 60+ hours to the end. It was a relaxing, ok experience but not what I want from Kojima. I put it down and will probably not pick it up again anytime soon. I’m halfway through my second play through of TLOU2. I love the story and this is the first game where I’ve given a damn about killing pixels. I didn’t think that was possible for me.

  9. Kinda iffy about comparing DS to TLOU2, if only because I haven’t heard of any devs or artists that worked on DS getting PTSD from looking at gore references ( >!the war nightmares could have been a problem if only because I still remember shooting the head off of one of Cliff’s summons and saw it continue coming at me with the spine exposed!< )

  10. Death stranding and Pathologic are the only games that I’ve ever not been able to describe or compare to other games. They both have such unique experiences that you have to play to appreciate, they’re both unconventional, and both have a lot of travel from place to place.

  11. DS took good risks; TLOUII, not so much. I’m on my second play through if the latter, in Survivor+, & I’m mite conflicted about it now than the first time around, which isn’t a good thing, IMO.

  12. Tbf I wouldn’t say TLoU2s main problem is it took a risk. It’s the general storytelling. DS took a risk and its definitely an acquired taste, but it works massively well with the people who liked it.

  13. There’s a crucial difference between these two titles:

    * Death Stranding was an entirely new genre. People who didn’t like it were either turned off by this completely new universe, or they didn’t like the new genre. The game had a high degree of polish.
    * TLOU2 is one in a long series of zombie survival third person shooters. The story is generic at best, and if we’re being honest, underwhelming. The controls were also nothing to write home about. However, the game lived off its character interactions and lovingly crafted world. Most people who loved TLOU1 loved it because of its human factor, the interactions between Ellie and Joel, a man who grew to care only about himself, but found himself as a father figure again and made a very difficult choice towards the end of the game.
    **Of course people are gonna be mad if you remove 1 of the 2 pieces people liked.** There’s not even a “reward” (for a lack of better term) waiting for you, no satisfaction, nothing, and all that misery porn is justified by insane decisions, all just to point at the player to say “you made questionable (often forced) choices, and violence is bad! Look into this mirror!” – The game thinks it’s edgy and deep, and fails at both of these things.

    Where this tweet fails is that people weren’t mad ad the bold story risks, they were mad at A) the execution and B) the quality of story risks. You can have Joel take a dump on a corpse, that’s bold – but it’s not good writing. And many people don’t seem to understand that. The industry has moved into this tiring trope of “subverting expectations”. Great, I didn’t see something coming – that doesn’t make it a good move. And neither does it justify the absolutely ridiculous character development of Ellie, who does exactly the same she chastised Joel for. Circle of Violence is a horribly ham-fisted trope, and it loses credibility when the game forces you to kill (like the dogs, for example).

    Take MGSV for example. There’s an invisible karma system that punishes you for being excessive in your missions, you start to look like a demon. It doesn’t bait you into forced action and then gives you a lecture about it.

    And Rocco is frankly being a hyperbolic drama queen about this. Just because some people didn’t like TLOU2, we deserve Madden? What kind of school yard logic is that.

  14. Difference being Death Starnding is all around a good game, The Last of Us 2 wasn’t, not by many means, sure it’s pretty, has great animations and decent music, but the writing was laughable and cheap at best with repetitive gameplay that failed to evolve the original formula in any meaningful way, the merits that matter the most it falls flat on

  15. Man, that’s just a bad take.

    Death Stranding made plenty of parallels between itself and Mario. Like a 3D Mario game that’s much more grounded with survival tactics/elements (like climbing ropes and peeing mechanics).

    The Last of Us 2 made bold story choices, but in a boldly poor direction. I mean, there’s a flash back in a flash back at one point. Not the kind of choice you’d make if you want your story as coherent as possible.

  16. I’ll probably get shit for this but the only reason I won’t play TLOU2 is because i hate when games make you switch characters like halfway through. Thats one of my most hated things in games. And I don’t really like Abby anyways. Why would I wanna play as a character I don’t like?

  17. He’s completely right, it’s just that TLoU took risks in a way that probably should be avoided in a video game. It’s an experience you partake in, not just read or watch. To have the character you play(ed) get killed by the character you then end up playing just won’t feel good – in fact, it could literally cause dissension and nausea in the player. Could that be precisely what Druckman was kinda hoping for, to shake people with such a surprise? Probably, and I’m cool with that idea… I just don’t think a video game is appropriate for such a thing.

  18. Imagine saying we deserve madden because people thought TLOU2’s “massacre everybody but spare the sinner” story was both flawed & done before. Mix in the director comparing it to Schindler’s List on twitter & the myriad allegations of crunch/work abuse at Naughty Dog & this becomes a massively lukewarm take.

    I can’t even get behind the DS sentiment. I’ve played most MGS games, read DS reviews, & got exactly what I expected when I played it.

  19. Naw I didnt get Death Stranding because its literally delivering shit in another Hideo Kojima fever dream world. I mean it has a mechanic for keeping your balance ffs.

  20. Risk isn’t an excuse for something bad.

    Death stranding and the last of us 2 are far from a risk: the first will sell even if it’s dogshit simply by Kojima doing it, the second is a sequel of a good game in the playstation lineup.

    Both are games well made by tecnical standards, but gameplay for both and storywise for the second they aren’t up to standards.

    DS is fetch quest simulator, tlou2 has the same gameplay of the first game with very little advances, with a story forced into a line instead of developing.


    Wanna see real risks? the developer of Felix the Reaper did an AMA on the game he spent 8 years making, a game that bombed.

    That was a risk.

  21. The Last Of Us II didn’t do anything bold though, and what it did do (storywise) it did poorly. The gameplay was essentially the same as the first game so nothing innovative there and killing or maiming your MCs isn’t shocking anymore since everyone is doing it. The only thing really shocking to people is how badly it was done. Also, revenge tales that rely heavily on forced narrative character decisions are the worst and it’s the kind of jarring thing that makes it difficult for people to invest.

  22. This guy clearly does not know what he’s talking about. TLOU II did not just take risks, it straight up took and spat and shat on the beloved characters, on everything that the fans loved while DS was really bold and “woke” with a great message that was not shoved into everybody’s throat. Chad Kojima vs Virgin Druckmann


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